Katie Rempe: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Knit a Spell. Jim and I are very excited for this week's episode because we welcome back one of our favorite guests: Brandy Williams. Yay.
Light From Lantern presents: Knit A Spell.
I'm magical maker: Katie Rempe.
And I'm the maker of magic: James Divine.
Join us as we stitch together the symbiotic relationship between crafting and 'The Craft'.
Katie Rempe: You might remember all the way back in episode 45, when we had Brandy on originally to talk about her book, Cord Magic.
She's back again. And this time we're talking about the magic of colorful cords.
Brandy Williams: So excited to be here.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Katie Rempe: For those of our listeners who maybe didn't catch episode 45, that will be linked in our show notes, could you go ahead and tell everyone a little bit about yourself?
About Brandy
---
Brandy Williams: I'm a witch, I'm a pagan, I'm a magician, and mostly I write really intellectual and geeky things. So once in a while I get really practical, and Cord Magic is probably the most practical thing I've done and it's so much fun.
Katie Rempe: Since Chord Magic has come out, how has it been received by fellow magical makers?
Brandy Williams: It's been so much fun and so exciting. I got to do a presentation in person this year, first time since the pandemic. And I went to a conference and I had scheduled
these kind of
intellectual presentations, and I got there and I realized that
I was in person with people and I could teach court magic and I hadn't put a cord magic on the workshop schedule.
Now with court magic. that you can use any kind of technique you want to and read the book and learn a bunch of stuff about it. But there's a particular technique of twisting a chord that took me a whole chapter to write and it takes three minutes to teach people. So it's way
easier to do in
person.
What
I did was I went to the local store and I grabbed a whole bunch of yarn and threads and I had a table where I was selling my books. So I put the threads at the end of the table and then people would walk by and buy books and come to talk to me. And so I go, Hey, you want to learn how to twist a cord?
So I got to teach a whole bunch of people and it was great because I got to teach them one on one. So I got to see exactly how they responded to it. I have both the experience of the book selling and it's selling well, it's in Spanish, which is great. Magia Das Cuerdas.
Katie Rempe: Ooh,
bueno!
Brandy Williams: So it, it does well. And also I've gotten the chance to be with people and see teach a whole lot of people individually how to do it. And it's fun. People really do enjoy very much learning how to do it. And there's a the twist, like at the end of it, when you're twisting a chord, it goes, and people's eyes will just light up and they'll get really excited about it.
I love that very
much.
James Divine: I love this. It's so accessible and such a rudimentary thing to really understand cords from a magical perspective.
It Takes your intellectual geekiness that you mentioned and it puts it into something that's really applicable. So you'll get so much more out of this book than just cord magic, you'll get witchcraft .
So I love that. We have a theme this season all about color.
On page 67 you start in on color and what I love first is you talk about, Hey, reader, what's your association with color?
Before we get into what are the associations or whatever with color, which are very, you say, dependent on socialization or culture, you ask the reader to say, what is your association with color?
And I think that's really
powerful.
Does Color Influence Magic?
---
James Divine: How do you think Color influences magic.
Brandy Williams: Color, is light. And color reflects the world around us. Color is the way that we can actually see what's happening around us. And so that's why it's so really fundamental. And color is something that's been important to people for a long time. I think we just had a recent discovery about more Paleolithic color palettes.
So color is something that we've really reached for as a species to understand the world around us.
And so people use color. In lots of ways around the world, culturally, people use color to reflect, to, to tune into the world, like to tune into seasons. In India, women wear saris that are color coded to the season.
Then, Japanese women also do that. They'll color code their kimonos to the season.
And then there's a festival called Navaratri in India, where every day is associated with a different color. And so women can change their saris to according to that. So it's a way to tune into different aspects of the goddess Durga, for example.
Blue is a color that in the Bible is associated with the sky, it's the color of the robe of the high priest, and it's the color of Mary. And in Greece it was the color of Minerva, so maybe that's where Mary got it. So it has these sacred connotations to us too.
Red is the color in the Catholic Church of Cardinals, so they'll wear specific colors.
And specific colors are associated with royalty. Purple in Europe was associated with royalty.
So we code like things that are important to us by specific colors. Oh, I forgot saffron robes, right? So in Buddhist robes
Buddhist
monks will wear robes that are colored like like the color saffron. So you can see, you can look at a Saffron Road person and see that they're putting on something that identifies them to people as a a holy person.
So I think color is it's really fundamental to the way we react to the world.
James Divine: I know that in ancient Greece, we see the white marble statues today in ancient Greece, but research shows that those were elaborately and we would say even garishly painted. in wild colors, almost, to be realistic.
When you say saffron robed monks, I think of Hecate, of the saffron robes.
And we think about Hakate today in North America is this like goth witchcraft and the underworld. But in ancient Greece, when we look at some
of the
writings and things about Hakate, no, she had saffron robes. Katie's
favorite
color, as we learned is this sort of saffron, golden amber color.
It's very interesting to think about, those connections through color.
Brandy Williams: Yeah, and I love the images of when museums go and reproduce the colors that should actually be on the statues they'll do images of that and they're really bright and really really vibrant. So I just love that.
I have an Hermes that's been painted with blue and gold with that he's holding his caduceus.
Yeah, it's a very good point.
Katie Rempe: As someone who has advised folks on taking time to develop their own color correspondences, why do you feel like making your own is more powerful? More meaningful?
Oh
Brandy Williams: Oh, I think that it's important to understand what your associations are and I, one of the reasons I wrote the book like that is that I really, I think it's important that we know that we bring meaning to magic that we can make our own understanding of magic that it doesn't have to be handed to us. And I want to say.
So I went to this event and I went to a store and I got a bunch of cords. So I got this
and I actually,
I brought it home with me on the train because it was so pretty and
so
much I've been
James Divine: So if you're just listening, what is happening is Brandy Williams is holding up a box with these vibrant colors of threads or cords in this box. And oh my gosh, this is a moment when you have to pop over
to YouTube
and look, cause it's so
good. And while you're there, subscribe. But anyway, go and look at those colors that Brandy's holding up.
Brandy Williams: Click
subscribe. Yeah. So I I hold this up to people and I say, let's make a cord. I say, you're going to need three threads. You can pick any number of colors, at least three. And I find that what they do is they want to have different colors and everybody immediately knows what color they want.
It's not something that people have to sit down and think about generally, right? Okay, and they know why they have that association. So someone says, I want to do fire magic. So immediately grabs red and gold and yellow. Once in a while people do have to stop and think. I have a friend who wanted me to autograph her book.
She came with a book that had tabs along the edge, which is really fun. And she had taught herself how to do the twist from the book, which was thrilling. I'm like, good, people can actually do that. I have a proof of concept. But she wanted to do to make a decision. So it took her a while to figure out what color would help her make a decision.
And so that was a time that somebody really had to think about it.
People know instantly what the color is that they want. And it's the way that they respond. So when I say you can have any number of course that you want to I did a whole chapter on number, people don't care. What they care about is the color then it turns into something else when you twist it.
So when you take three threads and put them together, they become this variegated thing and it, the color emerges of the energy that you're going to work with. So I think it's great.
So you can think through what is your color
I, and I did that, I,
I said,
okay for me yellow is the color of happiness, so I use a lot of yellow in my work, or you can just say, at this moment, this is the thing that I actually need and people will pull a color, and maybe not even know why it is that it's attracting them, but that's what they need right then, and then the answer will emerge as they, they work with the cord.
Katie Rempe: That color is their medicine. That's what one of our previous guests said.
And that's why you're wearing it or you're going towards it or whatever it's all in your life at this point because it's offering you something that you need even if you don't know.
Tips for Developing Correspondences
---
James Divine: If you wanted to give people tips on exercises for people who are interested in putting, the time into developing their own list of color correspondences. Is there anything that you would say if people are struggling with that?
Brandy Williams: Yeah, I said that people will know what color they want and why they want it. But sometimes you want to think through why that is. For me, writing a book was really great because it made me sit down and think about it. All right, let's make a list of the colors. Now what is it I do think about this?
It's very clear to me that I have associations like with the elements or with the planets. And those came to me from correspondences. But what do I think brown is? So it took a while to meditate on those things.
So I think one of the things is just to keep a list. However you do that, you can have a pen and paper. I have a phone and I use Google docs like a lot. So just keep a list.
I have in the book I have Pages that are lined out and have the colors, so you can just Xerox that and make a note about what your reaction to that color is, and maybe date it, and that might change over time.
You might decide, that today yellow is the color of happiness, and tomorrow yellow is the color of the bright searing sun that, that burned you today, and so maybe you need a little less of that in your life.
That may change, too.
Again I spend a lot of time in parks. That's one of the great joys of the pandemic.
It got me to go out, outside with my friends, and that's something that we're keeping as it's letting out. We still meet in parks a lot because it's beautiful out there, and there are trees, and so I sit in a park and I note the colors around me. Green is not just one color. Green is many colors.
Yeah so
what How do I respond to this particular green? There's the
green of ferns, there's the green of the cedar needles there's a green of a new leaf. So sit in the park note your reactions to the colors, then look in your closet, like what colors have you been wearing?
What has attracted you? And has that changed over time?
James Divine: I love how in the book, you really talk about the light green, dark green, just not just green. And so this is a sort of a takeoff of Oh there's about 18, 000 different shades of every single color.
How nuanced can you get? It's almost a mindfulness exercise.
Brandy Williams: So many shades. So
many
James Divine: many shades. Yeah.
Katie Rempe: And that's why I think when you just see a flat color, that's just the one shade it's
just a little off
putting.
James Divine: Yeah, it was many months ago since the peonies blossomed, but a peony is always the flower
that seems to
have it's a pink peony. And I'm like, no, it's
A thousand different colors and shades of whatever that. Keoni is.
Brandy Williams: I have more ideas.
James Divine: Oh yeah, please.
Brandy Williams: were going to the closet and looking at what kind of things that we were
look around your house and see what kinds of things you surround yourself with so I
have.
in my in my office, I have this orange curtain that's made of old saris stitched together.
This is not a color I wear like a lot myself.
But it's clear to me that I need orange in my life because it's everywhere. I have it in my bedroom. I have it in my office. So what colors are you attracted to? And has
that
changed over time? So in my gothy youth, I wore only black.
Katie Rempe: Imagine that.
James Divine: I can relate. Brandy
Brandy Williams: I would do laundry and I would put laundry in the dryer and I couldn't see anything. It would be like, everything's black. The underwear, everything is black, right? It would just
vanish.
Katie Rempe: So easy to wash.
Brandy Williams: Yeah. so easy to coordinate. So has that changed over time? And definitely it has for me.
And then the colors of your people. I took the time to look this up. So my mother's heritage is Czech. I said, all right what are the colors that I would see if I was in the Czech Republic? And it turns out that the flag, for example, has different colors for the different countries.
So there's silver. for Bohemia, which represents the sky, which is cool, because I think of blue or yellow as sky and air, but now they do white. Moravia is symbolized by the color red, and blue is the color of Slovakia, so you have red, white, and blue, which is awesome. So maybe that can, you can look at that and see what the meanings are there.
So there, there's a, a you can do to explore your relationship to color.
James Divine: I never have thought of that. Like the ukrainian flag is gold for the fields of flowers and blue for the sky. And I had never thought about that. Those Amber waves of grain in Ukraine is the gold.
Katie Rempe: Huh.
Brandy Williams: yeah, and I have a lot of Ukrainian stuff because we've been trying to support Ukraine.
You may know that etsy brought that forward and said support Ukrainian artists so they made things that were like sunflowers and blue. So all of my friends showed up suddenly with the colors of the Ukrainian flag.
So there's something that you and we all relate to that right so we relate to the idea of blue. As the sky and yellow as wheat or as the sunflower and it's a way to connect. That's really a great one because it's a way to connect up with other people.
James Divine: I had not thought about looking at that in that way. That's really cool.
Color Magic for Fiber Arts
---
Katie Rempe: When it comes to fiber arts and knitting, do you have any thoughts other than just, okay, yeah, I'm going to pick yellow yarn to make this happy pullover sweater. What are some other ideas that you might have in terms of applying color magic to the fiber arts?
Brandy Williams: I don't know if I had told you this story the last time I was on, but I did a project where I told people I would knit them hats. I knit but my best knitting is hats. I just love hats. And so I told people, what would you like? And I did an elemental hat set, so people would say, I want a blue hat, and that lets me get the whole blue color palette and they associate that with water, or if you wanted to associate with white with water, I could knit that into the hat.
So that was great fun.
There's the idea of wearing colors. So I'm wearing green because green is the color of Venus in the queen scale in the golden dawn. And Venus is the day the ruler of the day Friday, which is when we're taping. I wear green. And I actually could change my color out for each day of the week,
Sometimes because I'm older, sometimes I lose track of what day it is and I go, you're wearing green. It's Friday. It's
Katie Rempe: that's a good idea, actually.
It's like when you
were a kid, you used to wear the underpants with the Days of the Week on them. I
Brandy Williams: I had those.
Katie Rempe: So fun! Yes,
oh,
Brandy Williams: that with color.
so that's it.
James Divine: It's
witchy your animals,
Brandy Williams: that's it. So you could knit little strips that you could wear or scarves that you could wear of the days of the week if you need projects
Katie Rempe: Oh
yeah, I was just thinking, I gotta get a couple more on the needles, yeah.
Brandy Williams: Yeah it's almost time, right? Like
many people I led up during the summer because it's hot, but
it's. Getting
to be that time.
It's like September rolls around, you break out the needles and go, okay, what are we doing this year?
Katie Rempe: Yes,
Brandy Williams: What's this
year's hat?
Katie Rempe: Yeah,
James Divine: right?
Katie Rempe: Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk more about color magic with Brandy Williams. Stay tuned.
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---
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---
Hey there Knit A Spell fans. Guess what? We have a new home on Patreon! You can now support the show for just $5 a month at patreon.com/knitaspell.
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Katie Rempe: We are back. So Brandy, I have questions for you in terms of dyings.
James Divine: You mean death?
We're going to talk about death?
Magic of Dye
---
Katie Rempe: Yes, it's quite a change of pace. I want to know your thoughts on how the dye itself alters the magical qualities of a color. What's the difference in your opinion between a fabric that's mass produced somewhere versus one that Maybe you grew the plant, you smished it up, and you're dyeing it all.
Brandy Williams: Yeah, and I want to say, and I'll keep on saying it too, that anything you use is the thing that you use and it's all magical and it's all the best possible thing, right?
What I love about dyes and cord magic in general is that it confronts us with the physical basis of our magic. So the dye is a physical substance we've used a Ground up stone or an earth or something that has created this.
So it brings us back to the sort of physical foundation of the color is because we, It's separated from that physical basis about 150 years ago by generating dyes that can be any color at all. We separated the meaning of color from what made that color. But before that, a specific thing would make a specific color and you didn't have any other way to get it.
You had to use something to get a red. It was difficult to do. Green was almost impossible. Until aniline dyes. It was just very difficult to get a green. So I think that, that sort of gives us a way to meditate really on what this thing is and how it's affecting us.
So if you use one of those dyes, it's possible to do, and it's possible to find people who have dyed yarns with the plant based eyes are with with physical dyes, then it gives you another way of understanding that I want to say to when I use those yarns that are dyed with plants. I do feel that I feel the energy of the thing that has given it its color, and it does seem to have packed more of a punch.
Since you mentioned death it's partly because of that something almost always it's something living has died to make this.
And that's true actually for the acrylic yarns as well. Something living is back behind it. When you get to wool, something is actually not dyed.
You've just sheared the animal, but the animal is still alive. So
Katie Rempe: The fiber might be dead, quote dead, not growing, actively anymore, but still, yeah, that high frequency fiber.
Hmm.
Brandy Williams: Do you find that too, when you work with like natural fibers, as opposed to acrylic fibers, they really have a different feel to them.
Katie Rempe: Oh yeah, I actually saw this whole article that was breaking down the frequency of fibers and how like wool is one of the higher frequency fibers. So if you ever are sick or needing comfort to wrap yourself in wool and it can just naturally suck it out of you. That actually is a whole other topic that I would love to tackle at some point is like the frequency of fiber, the magic of fiber because the dye is just.
Another layer added on top of that.
Color Magic Preferences
---
Katie Rempe: Are there colors that you find you use less in magic than others?
Brandy Williams: It's a really good question and I think for me it's more like a shade. I take out my handy box in which I will say I'm pointing to a specific kind of
yarn that's a valence so I tend to not use, these things that are really bright neons. I tend to use dyes that look like they're naturally based dy, so I don't gravitate to that shade so much.
And I think that's something that we don't talk enough about in color. We think about color, like of the rainbow. And our thinking stops there.
But it's it's not even how many different kinds of colors there are, but there are shades of the color there. There are shininess is of the color.
that, that carry meaning. And I'm not attracted at all to the neons. I'm less attracted to the pastels and very attracted to the royal colors, the really deep true blues, for example. I tend to react more to shade than to specific color, but brown is hard.
I don't use brown much.
Katie Rempe: Brown was always one of the less selling colors back in my yarn days too. So yeah, I think that's
James Divine: Maybe in the seventies it was
popular.
Katie Rempe: Oh my gosh. Yes. It really had its heyday. Maybe that's why.
James Divine: Can imagine some of those artificial or some of those colors that we don't really see much in nature. It is interesting to think about that Brandy of the color bands or those color families that we might not see so much in nature might be hard to imagine in a magical setting. And yet when I do dye things with onion skins, or if I'm using something like cabbage a lot of times the
dyed color does end up kind of pastel, even though the cabbage itself was a really vibrant purple, it's hard to take, don't wash it.
Cause then it's white again.
Brandy Williams: Yeah, it's not color fast. Yeah, it's just thrilling to talk to somebody else who's actually done that. That's really fun. And it gives you that it's again it's not so much the pastel is it's a kind of valence or shade. And looking at it that you have died it yourself, but tumeric I have to say tumeric gives you a nice bright color.
James Divine: That's true. Whether it's your fingers or whatever it comes in contact with.
Brandy Williams: There's another thing too about color. Actually, I was thinking about it as you said, what colors do you gravitate to or not that actually also changes with the season. And this is something we all do right. In the springtime, the nature is putting on a show after a long.
Along like dormancy where we get a lot of bright pinks and pastel colors. So I'll gravitate to using those in my magic and using those in my, my, my other work. And then in the fall, everybody starts putting on the brown and, or that's where brown and orange come into their own.
And then as summer is all about the really bright. Colors the reds and white. There's this idea that you wear white in the summer and then in the winter we wear dark colors or neutral palette colors. So I think that's something that again reflects our, in our magic, what's going on in the world around us.
Brandy's #1 Magic Color
---
James Divine: Here's an Aries question from your local resident Aries, Brandy, you only got one color to use for your magic.
Pick it.
Brandy Williams: red,
James Divine: Oh,
Aries And it was an Aries answer.
Brandy Williams: It is the most magical color. If you're going to have one color, you could take one, one strand of this. It's automatically a magic. You put it around your wrist. I think I talked in the book about the different places where you find a single red cord that means something magically. So yeah, red, if you can only have one color, it is the color of blood, the color of life.
It's a protective color. It's a bright color. It syncs you up with with the idea of warmth and fire. So it has many, it's hard to choose. Now I have A
whole color palette.
James Divine: No. Don't backpedal.
Brandy Williams: Just one. This
one. We're doing red.
James Divine: Okay. Look at what Brandy Williams
just said.
Brandy Williams threw down with red. Did you hear that listeners?
You going to let that stand or are you going to send us an email and comment?
That's
what we need you to do. We need you to go to the YouTube, and you need to
respond and
let us know how Brandy Williams is wrong.
Or you need
to defend her and say, she's absolutely right.
I want to see a fight on the internet.
Brandy Williams: I want someone to throw down for blue.
Blue is a really
good choice also. And I also want to see somebody throw down for something that's not one of the rainbow colors light,
green, right?
Katie Rempe: Go for
James Divine: Come on, pews,
Katie Rempe: Yeah.
James Divine: someone
Brandy Williams: Oh no, there's no excuse for
Katie Rempe: There's no
excuse for pews!
James Divine: Brandy, this is so much fun.
Follow Brandy!
---
Katie Rempe: Before we let you go, please tell people where they can find you, what events you might have going
on, what
books may be in the works, all that fun stuff.
Brandy Williams: You can find me as Brandy Williams author. There are so many Brandy Williams is in the world. So Brandy Williams author is what I have. My webpage, brandywilliamsauthor. com Facebook, not. There are too much, but I do occasionally post Brandy Williams author Instagram. I do more on Instagram, Brandy Williams author there.
I have a pathios blog called star and snake, which I actually posted recently about going to Babylon rising. I put a picture up of the cords at the end of my table. And what I'm doing, I'm actually. going to be doing one of the presentations at the Sisterhood of Avalon Ninefold Festival.
I'm going to be talking about trees.
be fun. The magic of trees.
I spend a lot of time among trees. And I am working on I'm going back to the geeky stuff although heartfelt geeky stuff. So I am working on a book on what I call goddess Thelema taking
which is intellectual and Taking it off of that let's talk about the Lima, not about Aleister Crowley, but about the goddess, about Nuit in Babylon, and and Sophia, and I'm going to do a course you guys actually inspired me, you said, what are your offerings?
I'm like, I don't have much, but you know what I could do? I could do a course about goddess, the Lima, and that gives me a way to talk to people. I write by conversation. I like, yeah. Let's talk about these ideas, and then I left that feedback in the book, so I said, okay, in October, I'm going to do a four class set on the goddesses Nuit, Babylon, and Sophia, and so you can find that on my web page.
James Divine: Oh, I love it. I love it. Brandywilliamsauthor. com.
Katie Rempe: Yes,
And we'll link
everything in the show notes. So don't
James Divine: Brandy is genius. I love every minute we get
to hang
out, thank you for coming on to our podcast.
Once again,
you're one of our favorites.
Brandy Williams: Oh that's exciting.
Katie Rempe: else.
Cat's out of the bag.
James Divine: and
get this book.
Brandy Williams: Bye, the
James Divine: I love this book
so
much.
Katie Rempe: Absolutely.
It is one of my ultra recommended as a magical maker and person who obviously knits. Cord magic, baby! This is where it is at.
James Divine: So much more than cord magic. It's cord magic and so much more. This is a good foundational book to all of your magic.
Katie Rempe: We'll make sure to link it all in the show notes for easy reference, including a place you can buy it that's not that one place.
James Divine: Yeah.
You can go to your local bookstore and ask for it and then they'll have to order it.
Katie Rempe: And you get to meet the people who run it, who are probably really cool.
All right, everybody thank you again for joining us. Brandy, thank you for coming on, and we will see you all next week.
James Divine: All right. Bye.
Brandy Williams: Bye.
Outtro 2022: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the show, consider sharing it with a friend, leaving a review on iTunes and Spotify or following Knit A Spell on Instagram.
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See you next week. Next week.
