Jim: If we're gonna talk about fire, Fire actually means transformation.
Jim: The metaphor is, Physical fire, like a flame. The actual energy is transformation. This archetype of transformation. Okay. But here we are in 2022. Are there really good models of transformation that are good examples for us in our modern society?
Jim: No, there are not. You know what there is? Instead, we're told this statement. A caterpillar turns into a butterfly. Yeah. You're like, Okay, that's not a true statement.
Katie: Okay, what is?
Jim: A caterpillar turns into a larger caterpillar. Turns into a caterpillar searching for a place to mount its chrysalis.
Jim: Turns into a caterpillar creating a chrysalis. Turns into a chrysalis. Turns into goo. Turns into a weird thing emerging from the chrysalis. Turns into a butterfly.
Jim: And what we miss when we don't enumerate those things is the painful struggle and the millimeter at a time progress that actually is transformation.
Jim: Instead we have this myth in our society that change happens all at once, or change is quick or it isn't any work or it isn't painful or it doesn't actually happen micro moves at a time.
Jim: This is the problem that we get into when our modern society is so resistant to transformation.
Katie: Or it's very like all or nothing. I think that's a huge deterrent for so many talented people, is they don't even want to try because it's too much work, it's too much action. It's gonna push them too far out of their comfort zone, and they don't even try to go after it.
Jim: Exactly. We both succumb to that. Of course. We think we need to make big moves when the little moves will actually move us further.
Jim: When I think about the four elements in our society, fire gets the second biggest shaft because no one really wants to do magic or energetic work around true transformation. Which is: move me to the next millimeter along the path.
Jim: Instead people want to do magic to become a millionaire when they have no money. Takes a lot of magical energy to create that level of transformation.
Katie: And you have to put skin in the game. You can't just expect miracles to happen. Learn a language in a day. You have to walk the line, you have to commit to a discipline.
Jim: Miracles can happen. It just takes a tremendous amount of magical energy to do that. And miracles are much easier if you've also done the other work and moved it a little bit at a time and had a lot of practice doing that.
Katie: And it's funny because something that is a miracle or astounding to one person could be completely mundane to another.
Katie: Because I can tell you upon reflection that many people have told me, Wow, you are such a fast knitter. It's unbelievable how fast you can make something. To them that's miraculous. But to me I'm like yeah, it's because I've been doing it at a million years. Whatever, yep. Yeah, it's interesting.
Jim: So interesting.
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Jim: It's Sagittarius season.
Katie: And with that comes the element of fire.
Jim: Yes. Mutable fires November 22nd through December 21st.
Katie: How is a person a transformative, mutable person? How can you be cool about being transformational?
Katie: Is that like kind of the feeling around a Sagittarius?
Jim: Yeah, I think about the fires that are within the earth. The fires that warm rather than the fires that burn or the fires that are direct. So if you think about cardinal fire, that's like an Aries as a cardinal fire, that's the fire that blasts the fire, that burns and melts and is direct flame.
Jim: If you think about fixed fire, that's the fire that is always burning and is like the light, or that is always there, like the sun.
Jim: If you think about mutable fire, that's the fire that's in our body that is just always warm. It doesn't have to be huge. It doesn't have to be explosive, but it is always there and reliable. Bodies are not gonna burn you as long as you're alive. It's a steady warmth that's always there. Like the earth. There's a steady warmth that's always there.
Jim: I think of this as a mutable type of fire. So that's why Sagittarius is often associated with things like loyalty, steadfastness.
Jim: A lot of times people think of them as being very truthful and candid, optimistic. I really think of them as that, image of the centar, the half force, half human, And they often have the bow and arrow.
Jim: They're pictured that way in mythology, and this is a very noble image. And so some people have then interpreted that to be, enthusiastic or roaming. Like they have the horse type of roaming have wander lust open hearted and they want freedom. People often think because of the fire, they can be humorous and they're enthusiastic and lucky.
Jim: But I really think that mutable fire has a lot of that loyalty and that steadfastness of that centar and that sort of majestic quieter type of I'm gonna burn for a long time.
Katie: I agree with this. Very much like you said, the adventure.
Jim: Overuse of those skills can lead to someone who can be seen as wandering without responsibility.
Jim: I'm not sure if I know very many Saggitarians that have that particular quality. I think of Saggitarians having a certain quality of like sticktuitiveness and even a little bit of attachment, like loyal to a fault sometimes, or they can get stuck on an idea and fiery and passionate about that idea.
Jim: And sometimes you're like, Oh dude, get off it. So if you're a Sagittarius, that can lead to sometimes being a little tactless. Willing to fight for things, but in a way that is not as direct as an Aries. Blaming as a Leo in ways that are subversive. And so sometimes people can think of that as like reckless or fickle or rebellious.
Jim: But remember, Sagittarius is a mutable fire sign, so it is about transformation. How does a mutable fire sign do transformation? Slow and steady. Yes.
Katie: You gotta pull away and reflect.
Jim: Yeah. This is the ribs that go in low and. Oh, and the meat comes out tender, fall off the bone. Sorry for all your vegans.
Jim: So do you have any Sagittarians in your life?
Katie: Yes, that would be my partner, Brianne .
Jim: Oh. So as a Virgo And that's also mutable. Earth. How does your mutable earth and her mutable fire get along?
Katie: It's a good match because where I'm more cautious and pulled back, she's more willing to go after something that she hasn't done and push her boundaries a little more. So I actually feel like we're a good match in a lot of ways.
Jim: Yeah. That's awesome.
Katie: What about you?
Jim: I have a friend that's passed away who was amazing sagittarius, loyal to a fault. And he was very passionate and he would get so stuck on his ideas that he would chase them down to the N degree sometimes.
Jim: And he would get fiery about it. And then he was also could be underhanded sometimes overuse of that skill.
Jim: Where he was hilarious. He was very impish and he loved pranks. So he was always doing little pranks on me. And I one time got him back in my most epic prank ever cuz I just had to wait. I'm not very good at pranks. But I did get him back. For me, pranks have to follow rules, which are, they have to leave everyone feeling really awesome afterwards.
Jim: I don't like pranks that have you feel terrible afterwards. So I just happened upon this opportunity and took advantage of it.
Jim: Anyway, that'll be an extra for the Patreon. It's hilarious.
Jim: So that's how we get along with that sign. Yes. All right. So famous Sagittarians.
Katie: So I already mentioned Brianne, so that's number one.
Katie: Yes, we love her. I also found out that Tina Turner, Sagittarius. What? Yeah, I know. Brittany Spears, Nicki Minaj, Walt Disney, and Mark Twain. So there you go.
Jim: That's amazing.
Katie: Just to name a few. I'm sure there's many more of course. All these fire people in the industry.
Jim: These are famous people and they're hard to examine just from their sun sign. But it's pretty fascinating.
Katie: Why don't we take a quick break and when we come back, we'll dig into what it means to have a fire hand from the expert: James Divine. We'll be right back.
Jim: Every year people have trouble finding the right gift for somebody. Does it fit, is it something they have to dust or that they're gonna re-gift?
Jim: One of the best gifts you can give somebody this holiday season is the gift of an experience. You can give somebody the gift of a palm reading or a tarot reading from me, James Divine.
Jim: You can purchase gift certificates at thedivinehand.com/gift.
Jim: It's delivered via email. And you know what's cool? It always fits! So, if you're looking for a last minute gift, no messing with the crowds at the mall or the store. Just head over to thedivinehand.com/gift and grab a gift certificate for your loved one today.
Katie: Always in stock and never outta style. That's James Divine.
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Katie: And we're back. During the break we hashed into the famous celebrities who are Sagittarii, would that be the plural Sagittari?
Jim: I don't know. Probably not. The Sagittarians, the Sagittarius iss.
Katie: There you go. Yeah, I like is.
Katie: So the famous Sagittarius SISs which ones had fire hands to go with their fire sun sign? And what did we find out, Jim?
Jim: Tina Turner has fire hands.
Jim: So what is a fire hand? Let's talk about that first. Yes.
Jim: So hands come in 16 different elemental types. The four types are the pure elements are earth, air, fire, water. And then you can combine those together to get 16 types of hands.
Jim: Fire hands are very similar to fire signs. If you have a fire hand how you interact with the world tends to be in a transformational way. So there's a tendency for you to bring transformation to your interactions with the world.
Jim: There isn't necessarily a mutable cardinal or fixed, although depending on the combination, I guess you could assign those in certain ways. But I instead have them assigned slightly differently.
Jim: Pure fire hand is a hand that is often diamond or triangular shaped. Meaning it's tapered out from the wrist to the fingers and if you close the fingers.
Jim: And the palm is longer than the fingers compared to other people's hands. Most people's palm is longer than their fingers, but they have even shorter fingers than most other people.
Jim: So the way that you know whether you have a an element hand is you have to see a palm reader because you have to see people that have seen many hands in order to have that assessment.
Jim: It's very hard for a person who hasn't seen many hands to make that assessment on their own.
Jim: So just know that if you're looking at your hands, it can be frustrating to figure out what element hand you have.
Katie: Which is why you give the palm readings to people. Hey, you're still a specialist and still available if you're interested in finding more about your palm.
Jim: Thank you for the plug.
Jim: So fire handed people bring change. They love transformation. They love to be the purveyors of transformation.
Jim: So we have Tina Turner. She is a Sagittarius, and yes, as a matter of fact, she does have fire hands. I think she also has a little bit of water going on, so that could be the steam hand.
Jim: So what is that, What is Tina Turner doing? Transforming your emotions. Oh, she is moving you. If you go to a Tina Turner concert, if you listen to Tina Turner music, she is transforming your emotions. Absolutely. Isn't that cool?
Katie: I never thought about it that way.
Jim: And it's probably what she likes best about doing it is that soul and that emotion that's there.
Katie: Yeah. Oh, so cool.
Jim: One person who doesn't a Saggitarian named Brittany Spears. She has water hands.
Katie: An aspect we were really trying to find in our water hand episode. Where were you when we were looking for you, Britney?
Jim: People often ask me, what's the relationship between your astro chart, and your hands? Your hands are how you interact with the world. Your astro chart is like the weather system that you have going on.
Jim: So today in Seattle, guess what? It's raining No kidding. And like the rain is gonna cause me to take certain actions, wear my hooded jacket or walk quickly between the house and the car.
Jim: Sure. But if I have fire hands or water hands, that's how I'm gonna actually interact with people once I'm out of the weather, once I'm in a particular spot.
Jim: So Brittany has this Sagittarius astrology in this transformational sort of weather system. She has this transformational opportunities that show up and then she handles it with high understanding of emotions.
Jim: On her best days, her emotions serve her really well because she understands the needs and the emotions of the people around her, and she can ride that. But on her worst days, it's probably way too much.
Katie: Curious. All right. Who's next?
Jim: Nicky Minaj also a water hand. I think she has a little bit of fire in there, but I think it's water. Again, very similar in the way that Brittany is, that there's this emotional connection that she's looking to make.
Jim: But It seems like Nikki has a little bit of more fire in her hands, I think that she's able to be an empowered state and like transforming emotions. Similar to Tina Turner in that way.
Jim: We talked about Walt Disney. Yeah. Now this is a different type of hand. It's fire, but also with earth. Oh. So when you have earth and fire together, that's a lava hand. So this is a Sagittarius who is is involved in transformation with his fire hands.
Jim: But transformation of what? A steam hand like Tina Turner is transformation of emotion cuz that's what water is. Transformation earth is transformation of the tangible. Yeah. So if you think about what really got Walt Disney, interested or what really was inspiring to him, it was, how can I make this stuff real?
Jim: Yeah. So of course it wasn't just about the cartoons. It wasn't just about the communication and the media. It had to be a park, it had to be something tangible. And I think that's so interesting because there's lots of media that did not at all need to become physical as an amusement park.
Jim: That was absolutely critical for him to do.
Katie: And who doesn't feel transformed when they go into a place like that? Even if it's just because it's totally different than the reality you just stepped out of. Exactly. Oh, wow. Okay. That's a really cool reflection.
Jim: Mark Twain lived at a time when palmistry was very much in vogue, and you can Google Mark Twain palms or Mark Twain hands, and you can find accurate depictions where his hands were actually photographed.
Jim: His palms were photographed. It's really. Absolutely has fire hands. It's a great example of long palm short fingers. So his fire hands are very much there and there's a little bit of air quality to Mark Twain's hands.
Jim: So if we talk about the combustion hand or fire plus air, this is the transformation of mindset or communication that transforms.
Jim: What was he doing? Oh, he was a writer. He's a writer. Yeah. Transforming people through ideas and the element of air writing and thought, and, geez, ideas. Pretty cool, right?
Katie: Wow, really cool. I wonder if the person who read his poem was so reflective. I'm guessing not cuz Jim there's no one else like you.
Jim: You're too sweet.
Katie: Do you find having been somebody who's seen a lot of palms, that A person's profession ends up reflective in their hand shape ?
Jim: So not what they do, but how they do it. Ah, so you can be anything Sure in the world. Remember, that's what your mom said.
Jim: You can be anything you wanna be.
Jim: Let's say you wanna be an attorney. Okay, great. If you have fire hands, how you are the attorney, what will turn you on about being an attorney will be the transformation you're able to make.
Jim: Let's say you want to be a postal carrier. It's the transformational aspect of being a postal carrier that makes a difference for you. Working in a call center, you're gonna really appreciate those times when you're making a difference for people or when you make a difference for your coworker, or when you bring in a potluck dish for someone's birthday.
Jim: So those are the things that, for a person that has fire hands, those transformational moments are gonna matter.
Jim: So those are the things that show up for people invariably.
Katie: Cool. All right.
Jim: What about crafts? What are some fiery crafts? Can you think of those being our resident crafting expert.
Katie: I always think of the fire spinners, like Michael, anyone who's working with the art of literal fire, that is so mind blowing to me because, It's something I can't even comprehend doing.
Jim: My partner Michael, or cloven of the wood, if you wanna find him on Instagram, does flow arts, and one of those is fire performance. So he'll spin poi and do fire staffs and things like that. So working with fire in that way, that's like the literal fire.
Jim: I think about like wood burning.
Katie: Oh yeah, that one that you had where you kinda did the design and then burned it from there to transform the wood. That was really great.
Jim: So that was in our episode on Sigil Magic.
Jim: Do you ever use fire with yarn in some way?
Katie: You can. So when I would look for fire as an aid in crafting, it was usually to finish off something.
Katie: Let's say it was a fabric that was a synthetic that is going to fray if you don't somehow do something to the fabric. You can burn it carefully and melt the edges if it's a synthetic, and that transforms the edge into something that was going to just roll away to something like instead of hem it?
Katie: Yep. You can also use it to identify what the fibers are that you're working with. So that's something I used to do back in fashion school was, Okay, here are 20 scraps of fabric. Burn 'em and then tell me what they are based on how they burn.
Jim: Which one is silk? We'll find out.
Katie: Yep. , if it smells like campfire and is really light and ashy, it's probably a natural cellulose. If it's sparkly and hardens into a really weird crust, it's probably a synthetic. So that is really magical when you can impress people with that little gem.
Katie: We talked about scrying, using like a bowl of water or, through the fog or through clouds last time. Gazing into a candle flame is one of my favorite ways to be mesmerized.
Jim: One of the key things for magic is your ability to imagine in the most literal way possible. If you can picture something in your mind, that is the first step in being able to manifest or to create something magically.
Jim: So when we have our students meditate on a candle, a burning candle, the purpose is to have them be able to then eventually create that burning candle in their mind without having the burning candle in front of them as practice to visualize that burning candle as accurately as possible.
Jim: And if that's something you're doing every day, you're looking at that burning candle, you're studying it, you're meditating upon it, this becomes something that is now a meme to be able to practice creating it in your mind. So that's one of the tools we can use as a burning candle because it represents transformation, consumption, there's lots of symbolism around it.
Jim: Another application of magic using literal fire is scrying into flames, which you can do in a campfire. You can do with 70% rubbing alcohol. I recommend being very careful with this, but you put on a heatproof surface with Epsom salts in the bottom.
Jim: You pour in 70% alcohol just a little bit, and you light that and it will create a really beautiful flame. Ooh, a relatively low temperature flame compared to others. It does not give off any noxious fumes, but still be in a well ventilated place. And you can then stare into those flames and you can scry and meditate on those flames and see shapes, and see messages and meditate on that.
Jim: Just use a little bit and you can tell how long it'll last. Be very careful to do this in the proper way.
Katie: I never thought about doing that. Ooh. Have you ever done candle making before?
Jim: We have yes. In January there's a holiday called candle mass or Imbolc. And this is halfway between the winter solstice and the spring equinox when it's traditional to make candles. And certainly we've poured candles into glass votives. And we've also dipped candles and we've rolled beeswax candles.
Jim: And with that you can infuse the candles with essential oils or herbs, even putting little crystals, tucking them in here and there, and those candles can be made with intent and you're putting a little bit of the potential energy into the candle for it to be burned later.
Katie: That's a very crafting craft of the craft.
Jim: It's a fire festival because it's the returning of the sun. Here in this Sagittarius season, we see the nights are lengthening, the sun is dwindling. So we have this fire season happening here in November, December, when the days in the Northern Hemisphere the days are shortening. At the same time, we live on a ball. So in the southern hemisphere, the days are lengthening.
Katie: Yeah, it's great time being in Australia, I'll tell you what.
Jim: Or in Southern Africa, South America. Yeah. It's summertime.
Katie: We should do more hand exposes because I've really learned a lot. Not even just about palmistry, but about our habits and how we can use all of these awesome things to our benefit.
Katie: All right, everybody. Until next time, we'd love to hear if you have any fire type crafts that you do and indulge in, please let us know. You can drop us an email at [email protected].
Katie: Or you can send us a message on our Instagram page, or if you're feeling like it, go ahead and join us on our Patreon, which is always fun.
Katie: Until next week, we'll see you then.
Jim: See you soon.
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